Sharon Salzberg – Metta Hour – Ep. 198 – Shakil Choudry

Sharon welcomes Shakil Choudry for Episode 198 of the Metta Hour Podcast.

Shakil is an educator, consultant, and author with over 25 years of experience in the field of racial justice, diversity, and inclusion. He coaches executive teams and facilitates dialogue processes to resolve inter-group conflict, having led projects internationally and with organizations locally. He is the author of “Deep Diversity: A Compassionate, Scientific Approach to Achieving Racial Justice.”

sharon salzberg

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In this conversation, Sharon and Shakil discuss:

• How Shakil was drawn to racial diversity work • The first representation Shakil was exposed to in media • The impact of Interconnection • Holding tension between Individualism and Community • Developing Equity Literacy around oppressive social structures • Learning the patterns of inequality • 360-hour rule of learning • The tipping point of George Floyd’s death • The emotionality of racial justice • Shame as a learning tool • How do you make people change? • The power of listening  • The four pillars of Shakil’s approach to racial healing • Emotional beings first, thinking beings second • The function of Bias • How the groups we belong to form our identity • The dynamics of in-groups and out-groups • The nuance of power dynamics • The episode closes with Shakil leading a ten-minute guided empowerment meditation.

“The political forces right now in the world are about extremism. They are yanking communities apart and separating them. Filling them with fear and lies and hate. So, truth is needed in that. Discernment is needed and that. Compassion is needed in that. Care is needed in that.

Those who have the capacity can, and should step in with those tools. Shaming and blaming, there is a place for it… but we often need a different approach. Not everyone can do it, but those of us who can need to step in to support a different culture and conversation.” – Shakil Choudry

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To learn more about Shakil’s work, you can visit, and please get yourself a copy of his book Deep Diversity, available in hardcover, paperback, ebook, and audiobook formats: