Jack Kornfield – Heart Wisdom – Ep. 58 – Frank Ostaseski: Starting with the Fruit


Jack is joined live on stage with Frank Ostaseski to talk about rethinking our perspective on life and death and starting with the fruit of practice.

“When you open yourself, you get it all. That is part of what it means to be a loving human being. To grow your capacity to be present for this incarnation and its mystery in an openhearted way.” – Jack Kornfield

Show Notes

Starting with the Fruit (Opening) – Jack starts the conversation by exploring the similar messages found in their newest books “No Time Like the Present” and “The Five Invitations.” They talk about a mistake many of us make in our practice, which comes when we look forward to the rewards of practice before their seeds have taken root and flowered. The two talk about taking another perspective towards the fruits of Dharma practice, by living those results before they come naturally.

“There is another perspective, which is called ‘Starting with the Fruit’, ‘Living the Fruit’ or ‘Starting with the Result,’ in which we don’t have to wait to be free. Yes, these trainings are enormously helpful, but in any moment we can be truly present, loving, and free. No one can take that from us, that is our true nature. They can put your body in prison, but not your spirit.”

Stepping into a Relationship with Death (17:20) – Frank talks about how his practice is primarily focused around intimacy. He shares his perspective on the intimacy that comes with death and what our lives might look like with a healthier relationship to death.

Frank shares the meaning behind “The Five Invitations” and the most important things he has learned from his time with the dying.

“Death is not at the end of a long road, but in the marrow of every passing moment. She is the secret teacher hiding in plain sight, showing us what matters most.” – Frank Ostaseski

From the Other Side of the Hospital Sheets (27:50) – Frank shares his experience being close to death after suffering from a heart attack and the perspective it provided.

“Life and death are intimate. They are a package deal, you cannot pull them apart.” – Frank Ostaseski

Finding Freedom (45:00) – Altered states of consciousness, reincarnation, and higher realms are something easier experienced than taken on faith. Jack and Frank share their thoughts on forcing their views and ideas on others and discuss ways to talk about subjective experiences with honesty and a sense of objectivity.

“The Dharma is the heart; it is the way we live in the world.” – Ajahn Chah

Listen to Franks last visit to the BHNN over on Ram Dass Here and Now and find Frank online and on Facebook

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