Here & Now – Episode 12 – Behind it All (Transcription)


Raghu Markus: Welcome to the Ram Dass Here and Now podcast and I’m your host Raghu Markus. Well, in doing these podcasts over the last couple of months now, they are new for the offering that we do at

I just started to listen myself to the actual lectures that we’ve been presenting after my introductions. And these are lectures that came in the late ‘60’s after Ram Dass came back from India. They are those lectures which prompted many of us to get over to India at that time. 1970 actually. But I hadn’t really listened to these lectures in a long, long, long time! And, er, but of course doing this, I’ve been listening … and I’m actually quite amazed at the …. relevancy that they have. Not that this kind of wisdom, you know, is a taste of the week kind of thing, but it certainly is still pretty radical for somebody to have come along at that point in time and have some serious wisdom about how to move along in this world from a soul point of view rather than an ego point of view and know that there is a way to get happy, I mean, which is a major thing back then many of us were pretty depressed individuals. So, yeah, just commenting on that and I hope many of you listening are really enjoying hearing these words from Ram Dass.

Today I want to tell of an incident…

I think the last couple of podcasts I talked about sort of giving a little bit of, slice of life I called it, being with Maharaji, just moments where you get an idea of what it was like. Because there was no teaching really going on, it was very much in the moment. Relating back and forth with him and him prompting all sorts of er, you know, pretty interesting things. Basically reflecting, with that pure mind, reflecting the individual, everyone’s individual stuff. Sometimes it wasn’t so pleasant.

But this particular incident happened in a place called Vrindavan which is where Krishna frolicked with the young women who milked the cows. And we were staying there and Maharaji had told us not to come to the ashram for some days. I guess he was bored with us. But one day Krishna Das….

Now many of you know who Krishna Das is. He does chanting around the world. And he was the first westerner with er, that came with Ram Dass in those days that Maharaji really gave the ashrabad to, to kind of lead the way with chanting which is a major method, practice rather, that many of us use to this day. If there’s anyone out there who doesn’t know who Krishna Das is, actually to this particular audience, most of you will have heard of Ram Dass obviously, or you wouldn’t be listening to this. I want someone to write me and tell me ‘I never heard of Krishna Das until I heard this podcast.’ Just a little quirky thing here.

So I was with Krishna Das. He hurt his knee. And he was in a lot of pain and he couldn’t walk. And he was a little bit nervous being in India with this kind of an injury, so he said ‘Would you help me get over to the ashram?’ which was, you know, about ten minutes away by rickshaw. ‘I just got to ask Maharaji what to do about this.’

So off we went.

Now some of this stuff in order to get my memory straight I did go back to a diary I had kept back then and er, so some of this comes straight from there. Now Krishna Das and I go back and forth a lot. He’s told this story many times because there’s some elements in it that are pretty amazing. And we do go back and forth from time to time about who remembers what really happened or what he… did he say that word? Or did he… or, you know, something like that. So, Krishna Das this is the real thing here!

So we got there.

And when we got there Maharaji said ‘What’s wrong?’ And, you know, we told him and he saw Krishna Das holding his knee and then he sent out for some ointment. Something he called, with, the guy with the moustache, I cant remember what the hek the name was, Krishna Das would. And then Maharaji in one moment, this shows the complete gamut of the love and compassion of this being that had nothing to do with powers or any of that stuff, just caring. And he turned to me with a very upset look and said ‘What happened?’ He said ‘Did any of the mothers come to help?’ Meaning any of the western women. And we said ‘Yeah, a couple of them.’ and then he said to me ‘Oh you served here, you’re good.’ and of course I’m all puffed up about that and then he said to me, you know, completely out of context from Krishna Das having this injury and they’re applying the ointment on while he was talking, and he said ‘What did you do in America?’ And I said ‘Radio manager’ and ‘How much money did you make? Were you on leave? Would you go back?’ and he starts talking to me about my work, in the middle of all this, something I never remembered and he said ‘Will you go back to that work?’ and I said ‘Well I’ll do whatever you want Maharaji.’ And he said ‘Well I’ll get you married.’ Which he did, some time later … as crazy at that was. Then, you know, he did the same with Krishna Das. He asked him what he did in America and how much money he made. Krishna Das was driving a school bus, I think, before he came. And then he asked about his knee again. Had it hurt before? Yes. And in America. And then he touched Krishna Das’s knee lightly, twice and then blew into his hand and touched it again. And then Maharaji said ‘What will this medicine do?’ You know, that had been rubbed into Krishna’ Das’s knee and he said, Krishna Das said, very cleverly I must say, he said: ‘It will hide your grace Maharaji’ And … true. And then some bhajan went on, some mira bhajan actually Krishna Das sang and it was a very emotional moment, very emotional, and actually Krishna Das was weeping and Maharaji said ‘Why are you crying?’, and Krishna Das says ‘I just love your love.’ So all wrapped up in that moment was tremendous compassion and caring and love. Just human, you know?

And from there, suddenly, you know, Maharaji got up. And he started walking around the courtyard. And he was hanging on to, I think it was Guru Dak, one of the elder Indian devotees and he has kind of hanging on to him, he was leaning on him and as he was doing that Maharaji was kind of limping and Krishna Das started thinking oh jeez he’s taken the pain from my knee. And he came and sat back down and he said ‘You were thinking I had pain in the knee? You want to give me the medicine?’ Then he put his leg down and he rested it on Krishna Das’s leg, rubbing his leg and then, of course, Krishna Dass no longer had any pain. That was one moment.

Of course a whole other aspect to who Maharaji is. And then um, the next thing … this is the part of the story Krishna Das tells quite a bit. And it is, just, you know, an amazing part of the story. But Krishna Das had a diary with him. And just you know he used to just put all sorts, aside from what Maharaji said, whatever dreams he might have had he wrote down and so on, he also put down, we all did this… different quotes and slokas from holy books and spiritual scriptures from different traditions and in this case … he had, um, one page that had the song of Maha Mudra, a Buddhist, a very well known Buddhist text, amazing text by Talopa. And Maharaji looked at it and I guess Sharma translated some of the lines and Maharaji said ‘Bahotaja, Bahotaja’ and I think, not I think, what I have written down here, which is something I had not remembered, the translation that he gave Maharaji was exactly this:

‘If one sees not, when staring into space, if with the mind, one then observes the mind, one destroys distinctions and reaches Buddhahood.’

That was the first stanza that was, that Krishna Das had written into his book. So that was pretty amazing because then Krishna Das was like, oh god, I’ve got Buddhist stuff here and the Hindu thing and we were all in our mind about it and Maharaji completely nixed that. And then he turned the page, and on the next page, Krishna Das had put a picture of Maharaji big picture covered the whole page, and Maharaji looked at his picture and he said to us ‘Kil? Who’s that?’ And we’re like, ‘Hah hah ha, of course it’s you!’ and he said ‘Nei. Buddha..’

So, that is a major part of what he passed on to us.

That is an essence that is. um … something that is really, really special. From the moment that we went back, with Ram Dass, who was back there the second time, from that moment one of the, er, biggest gifts that Maharaji gave us … obviously love, unconditional love, being the foremost, but one of the other biggest gifts that we got, was this complete – the idea of completeness of only one. There is one. There is only one. He kept saying it over and over. Buddha, Mohammed, Christ, Krishna, there is only one and he said Christ and Hanuman are one, about a million times to us. They are the same.

So this little incident that happened when we went there because Krishna Das’ knee was hurting and we came out of there with this … complete, utter evisceration of any idea of singularity of one tradition over another. It was so obvious. And this is how he taught without teaching. And, er, this is what prompted Ram Dass to give to people when he first came back from India. And here is more of that.


Ram Dass: To go, you got to go the whole trip all the way back before you get to the place where you see that behind all of this there is all of this in its Om. In its unmanifest form. Always eternally, but nothing’s really happening at all. Nothings really happening at all. Nothing ever happens. Nothing’s going to happen. Nothing you got to. There’s no doer anyway. It’s the grand illusion and all of the groovy trips in astrology and the astral plane and occult powers and all the groovy trips of mind and all the groovy trips of God concepts and ideas and creations and all that, it’s all stuff. Beautiful. Exquisite. I mean, oh wow, cos at every level is the same trip. The cell, and the microcosm and the macrocosm and the macrocosm that’s the microcosm of that macrocosm, they’re all the same repeated over and over again.

There are certain laws that you understand when you’re in the Godhead. You see how the whole system works. You see about action and reaction, you see a lot of the laws that man in his highest moments has touched. He’s touched. Just like when Einstein touches. You can see that he broke through. You can see that he understands when a man breaks through. And Einstein was a pure being and that’s how he touched it. He got beyond ego. He got into the world of pure ideas. He got to the Godhead. He saw how it was in that one little place. He went through, right down the middle, right down the middle.

And then when you have gone all the way out, like Buddha when he sat under the bodhi tree and he went beyond all the desire and all the attachment that kept him, no matter, kept him from being God even. I mean it’s groovy being God. You know, if you’ve just been a little child being pushed around or been, just, you know, a tax payer … wow not only can you play Nixon! I mean don’t settle for being President, be God! And then when you’ve used up all those desires, then you’re ready to go through the door.

Now, the game is, that Buddha sat, and he sat there for seven days and he said well shall I just hang out here you know or shall I come back? And there are many beings that don’t, they just finished. They’re not on assignment. Because they’re really finished.

See, many of us have gone through every one of those doors. I’ve been through every one of those doors, I have been into the void. And yet here I am sitting here in form. Thinking in form. Seeing in form. Most of the time, being at the lowest level. Because my desires brought me down, they brought me back all the time. I was not free of attachments. And I have to keep coming back to the level the attachments kept me at.

But if you were purified and finished with attachments, that’s what renunciation means, you’re finished with attachments, doesn’t mean anything to do about what you do in the world, it has to do with your inner being. If you’ve gone the whole trip, then you get into the void. And you’re in the void and you are eternally, eternally in the still, quiet ocean where the lights of mother and son merge as one. It’s all one. It never was and never will be.

Then Buddha saw, I mean he had a vision and the vision said from the astral plane or causal plane, said, sent him on assignment in effect, said ‘There are many beings whose veil is very thin and you can come back and teach them.’ And that’s the bodhisattva role. Because you finally understand that though it’s all illusion that it never was and never will be, at every level at which you exist, you are part of everybody else, so as long as anybody is hung up, you’re still hung up. Because it’s all one being. really. That’s the bodhisattva problem, so everybody makes it or nobody makes it.

So what happens is you go all the way out, and then you come back.

He who clings to the void and neglects compassion. Now what does the word compassion now mean? Compassion only means a true empathic understanding of how it all is. Which you can only understand when you’ve been in the void. I mean if somebody comes into me and brings me their heavy burden of, er, their karmic trip oh I’m suffering so, its so rough, and I empathise with them and I love them and I feel the sympathy, and at the same moment that I’m doing that, I realize they don’t exist, I don’t exist, the problem doesn’t exist. None of us ever were, nobody’s doing anything to anybody, right that’s compassion and at the same moment I’m there and I’m, going yeah right, I dig how it is.

Compassion is being conscious at all levels. That’s what compassion is. Understanding how it all is every where all the time.

‘He who clings to the void and neglects compassion does not reach the highest stage but he who practices only compassion does not gain release from the toils of existence. He however who is strong in practice of both, remains neither in samskara nor in nirvana.’ He neither remains in the void nor in the world. The final place that the game leads to is where you live consciously in all of it which is nothing.

You are eternal, there’s no fear of death. Because you see that it’s just a transformation in an illusion. And yet seeing all that you still chop wood and carry water. Do you understand that? You still do your thing. You flow in harmony with the universe. You are beyond morality and yet you are a totally moral being. Because that’s the harmony of the universe. You see that to do anything with attachment is only creating more desire, which is creating more desire, which is creating more desire which is keeping you in the game longer and longer and longer. Keeping you in the illusion. Once you see through that it can’t help but fall away, What are you going to do? You get all caught up like: I think I’ll become famous wow! Boy am I going to become famous. And you’re already laughing at yourself, ‘Wow, man, am I gonna go on that trip? Who am I kidding? Alright, here I am, I’m famous. Wow, look at that, I’m famous, boy. Well that’s that, now what? I’ll become rich. Ever hang out with really rich people? Busy being rich. And finally the day comes when they say ‘Yeah, right I’m rich so that was what that was about.’ Then they’re getting ready perhaps to go through the eye of the needle. Until then they’ve not got a chance of a snowball in hell.

That final place of pure idea is the place where yin and yang exist. It’s the place where duality exists. The first place into form from the formless you come into the place where there is energy, where there is form and at that point there is polarisation. And in order to be a truly enlightened being you must delight in the exquisiteness of every single level.

You must take joy in your maleness or femaleness at the same moment as realizing you are both male and female and you were never either male or female. That far out. That far out.

And if you get attached to being unattached… too bad, you got a long way to go.

I said before, you can’t rip it off. It’s like the snake skin, it’s got to fall away, its got to fall away like the skin of a snake falling off, it’s the only way it can happen. It’s the only way it can happen. The only way it can happen. We can’t rush it. I mean, I’m … I really understand how this all is but my intellect is way ahead of where I’m at. I mean, it’s so poignant. I mean, knowing all this I could be an enlightened being. But there’s still desires. And they get more and more subtle. And each time you get finished with one it just uncovers a new one.

I mean there are the gross desires, I’ve got, like lusting for root beer and, you now, all the things that still take me on my trip,

Can’t rip them away, I just can’t not desire root beer. What am I going to do? Not desire root beer? Try it! Funny thing!

I mean vows are a complete hypocrisy. You can’t take a vow about things. You either do them or you don’t do them. You think an external vow is going to change the game? It can only change the external act. The external act has nothing to do with renunciation whatsoever. You can be having sex every night and have renounced sex. Because what you’re renouncing is the attachment. In fact tantric sex, is the highest form, is a very, very high yoga. And it’s the yoga of using the sexual energies to become one with God, to go into these higher states.

And when you start on any of these trips be it yoga, I mean, hatha yoga, or bhakti yoga, or gyan yoga, or karma yoga or psychedelic yoga or tantric yoga, you’ll always go in to places where you’ll get big shots of bliss, oh boy is it good. Remember what my guru brother said: Some people get attached, attached to digging the ecstasy bliss. So good. I mean I’ve just haven’t … all my life I’ve been reaching for that kind of bliss. Sex gave me a little wallop of it. A great achievement would give me a little wallop. A little bit of a drop of this elixir, the stuff, the ambrosia that padmashambhava is holding a big bowl of. Man I really dig that bliss, Oh boy have I been starved for bliss. I mean you know what bliss is? It’s total contentment. Total serenity. How does that feel? You’ve got it all. It’s like after you’ve eaten the best possible meal and you sit back… and you know, it’s like those ads where you got of the guy who’s worked hard and he comes back and he loosens his belt and he’s taken off his shoes and he’s a workman and he’s got his beer on the table and he’s sitting back and he’s got his feet up, and he’s oh….I can see the Norman Rockwell cover now. That’s the definition of contentment. That’s the eternal place. No matter what he’s doing. I mean everything he did all day up to that moment, he’s still in that place when you’re in the place. See that’s what I said about if we know who we are we’re not busy being in the drama. You can just know what you have known from tonight, knowing this. If you know this, you’re already well, well, well along the way, I’ll tell you. And I’m telling you from another guy who’s just along the way with you. But I got a feeling for how it’s all unfolds. Although there’s no time in it.

See I used to be busy…I, er, people said if your guru knows everything thing, did you ask him when you’ll be enlightened? Well that’s a funny question, because when I’m with the guru I don’t have any questions. Because he’s all and everything and there’s nothing to ask because it’s all alright.

And the funny thing is what good is it knowing? What do I care? What difference does it make? It’s like if you say ‘Where did it all begin? I mean how did we get stuck in this dilemma in the first place?’ and Buddha always answers ‘Its none of your business. Just get on with it. When you get there you’ll know. It’s not for the trivial and rational mind to figure out. You know, you’re a child when you grow up, time enough for you to smoke. Don’t rush. Don’t rush – just be. Be here now.’

See, once the seed is planted then it becomes like what’s called the witness inside of you. It’s the place inside of you where you see your whole drama unfolding. You see how important you’re making it all. How caught, how deep, how significant, how profound. All the euphemisms you’ve got for making it important. Now this doesn’t mean you trivialise life. It doesn’t mean you care any less for its divinity or its sacredness or its beauty or its purity. You live it with grace and with exquisite compassion. Being aware of its illusion and yet fully in it. If you’ve ever watched a beautiful Zen monk a very old monk who was like really there. Here. Really here there – wherever it is. You watch him, he’s cooking food, he’s lifting rocks. He’s moving. You watch him walk and it’s like nobody’s walking. Did you ever watch one of those beings? They just walk, and their legs are going and the whole things happening and but nothing’s happening. You get the feeling there’s nothing happening. He’s always at total rest no matter what’s happening. And that’s what blows your mind when you get out of this … the, the kind of heads that we’ve got going which don’t allow us to understand how this can be.

You live out your karma. You live out your karma. The best I can tell you about karma, is, that if you are pure spirit, if you are not matter but if you are that eternal spirit, you are that eternal energy, you are going through a sequence, a series of illusions if you will, that are training you to finish with illusion. And when you have finished going through all the carnival side shows, you begin to see that in fact the snake was only a rope.

And these are a series of experiences designed, designed. Your life, including, including your heredity, your environment, every experience you’ve had, every experience you’re going to have, your death, the whole trip is one karmic package. And it is programmed, completely programmed and you are going through it now. And if you understand what I just said, you then are in the position of the witness who watches your own karma happen. And that is your karma too. You got it? You don’t level!

There’s no way out of karma, you gotta understand, there’s no way out, there’s no way out. Except for enlightenment. When you’re fully enlightened you’re done with your karma. Fully. Not for a second. Not for a second. Fully. Finished with the trip. Fully enlightened.

Once one understands the possibility, once the seed has been planted, one starts to look for the ways. The ways to get on with the journey, since you suddenly realize, you don’t suddenly but it dawns slowly upon you that that’s the only journey there is. There’s nothing else to be doing.

People say, Why. Who are you? I say, I’m somebody who’s doing sadhana, I’m on my spiritual path. Say why do you do it? And I say cos that’s all there is to do. Nothing else to do! What am I going to do? Go out and have fun? Go out and have fun? THIS is part of my spiritual path, what I’m doing right now. This is my work. Because all the time, it’s not like… I’m not lecturing to you. I’m doing my mantra. I’m keeping centred. I’m watching this drama unfold. I’m working on myself. And every now and then when I’m talking, I get so fascinated at the sound of my own word, see, I go fast asleep. I get caught in the illusion and I suck you in too. And here we all are and there’s a speaker and there’s listeners, and here we all are, the whole drama, we all forgot, we’re just playing Hamlet. And then I feel this thing in my fingers oh wow, god, I did it again. More root beer.

I mean you’re addicting. You’re addicting to me, you’re hooking me on my desire to try to share with you my experience. That’s a trap. That’s a desire. That’s keeping me here unfortunately. I mean when my guru brother said some people get hung up on spreading the light, that’s my trip. I mean, I can’t not do this, this is my thing, because this is my karmic package. All I can do is just watch it with absolute … horror! Horror.

The terrible beauty of nature, we say to one another in the Himalayas. The terrible beauty of nature. Poor Ram Dass, you know, he’s gotta be doing that thing.

It’s good work! See how seductive it is? I mean that’s good, it’s important that he does that. ‘You help me a great deal. I’ve really been helped a lot. Thank you so… Oh, thank you’ Who are they thanking? Who are they thanking? There’s no me. Thank you, great, here we are. Shall we play thank you? Thank you. It’s just happening, I don’t care, I don’t really care. Who I am, it all happened already. Your whole karmic trip is already programmed. I’m just a part of it – there’s no accidents. It’s not an accident that you are here. It’s not an accident that the guy that was sitting there, who couldn’t quite… got up and left. It’s not an accident, it’s all programmed, It’s all part of it. All part of it. No accidents? Can you imagine that? No accidents. You gotta stand back pretty far to see that. See that.

So there are methods. And you’ll find methods and they’re all around you. In fact your daily life is the most profound method of all, the method of karma yoga. It’s the method of waking up to everything that happens. You’re drinking root beer and you say wow dig that. And you don’t…. you put yourself down and you say damn you, you’re drinking root beer again and then you say wow dig that! You dig the judge, and oh boy have we got the judges! Oh! Here comes the judge boy and he’s been around and he’s not just coming, he’s coming and going, he’s got a … super ego it’s called. Internalised values.

We can’t practically do anything without judging. Say, a flower – is it pretty? Is it pretty? You can’t almost look at the flower without evaluating it. It’s very hard for you to sit and just be here and let all this stuff happen without judging. Is it good? Is it right? Is it wrong? Will it help me? That’s the trap, that’s part of the trap. And so, what gets really exquisite, not that you dig root beer but when you start to watch your own thoughts. When you realize that thoughts are like birds flying across the blue sky. And when you realise that when you’re finally along in the journey, you’ll notice that your mind is completely empty. You’re mindlessly doing what you’re doing. Just become a vegetable. Mindlessly floating along. It’s all happening. It’s all happening. Oh … wow … No doer, it’s just happening. No doer. No doer. Buddha says as long as there is a doer you are still stuck on the wheel of birth and death. No doer. No doer at all, it’s all happening, This is just happening. We are all witnesses to this Happening. Life is a happening – a monstrous happening.

People ask, ‘How do I go on with my studies, if I believe this, what do I do next?’ You BE next. You’re doing it right now. There’s no next. It’s right now. Right now. Everything you’re doing is a vehicle to wake up.

What do I do? I do a thing called Ashtanga yoga. You want to read about it – there are books they’re called Raja yoga. One book’s called How to Know God by Swami Prabhavananda and (Christopher) Isherwood. They’re all concerned with a set of early writings, sutras by Patanjali. The Patanjali sutras were written maybe 500 BC – 500 AD, somewhere in there, from older ideas.

And this business this technique of yoga merely says…. Yoga is so exquisite. It’s not like body beautiful like most Westerners think of yoga. When I came into Los Angeles from India, I was sitting in the American Airlines terminal between planes. I mean this was so far out after having been in the Himalayas, living in the bible for the last eight months, and suddenly you’re in the American Airlines, super plastic domain and you’re, you know, sitting with a beard and a dress, barefooted in American Airlines .. and some soldiers came up on the way back from Vietnam and they looked at me very… I don’t know how… and they said ‘What do you think you are some kind of a yoghurt?’ Out of the mouths of babes…. So profound. (laughter)

Yoga means union. Yoga is a systematic method for cutting through the game, for cutting through the illusions. I mean, if you’re doing Hatha yoga, you’re not just getting your body beautiful what you’re doing is turning your body into a vehicle for prayer for transcendence of ego. Every asana is a perfect mudra, is a perfect statement of form. Just like a beautiful work of art. And you put your body in that place and you centre and you go outside of your ego and the body becomes a statement of a higher thing. That’s what hatha yoga is at it’s highest. Hatha means the conjunction of the moon and the sun, a very high form of yoga.

Bhakti yoga, the yoga of love and of worship, boy if there’s any yoga that is groovy for we heavy minds – it’s Bhakti yoga. Bhakti yoga is the way of the Kali Yuga, Alan Ginsberg chants. And he’s right, man, it’s absolutely true.

Love is such a powerful technique to get high, you can’t believe it.

Not interpersonal love. Not the love of Sadie and Frank. See. Not yin and yang love, not lust, not subject/object love, not I love her or him or it, but We Are Love. Be love, its very simple, just be love. See. Love equals energy equals consciousness, remember that? Be love! Simple enough, try it. It’s very far out. No attachment, you don’t need anything, you don’t need anybody to love you, you are love.

Everybody around you feels your warmth, your light, your love because you’re just being love, you just turn into liquid love. Because everybody you look at is that same place. See if I dig that it’s all illusion, you’re the illusion as much as me. When I look at you do I see your illusion? No, I look right through the illusion I see the love, I see the light. You are love too, so I look at love like, ‘Here we are, we’re love’ So its no come on, I’m not saying ‘Come on, love me baby, do you love me enough? I’ll love you if you love me.’ None of that, that isn’t the level of love. It’s the sea of love. It’s the Be of love. The Be of love. It’s a Be in. Be in. Be in here. Human be in here. Human be in here and now. Human be in.

Bhakti yoga. Gyan yoga, the yoga of meditation. The beautiful yoga of the mind going beyond the mind. You calm the mind down and down and down until you bring it down to onepointedness. Then like a laser beam you turn it in on itself and you burn right through the middle. And you go behind the thought of I. You go behind the mind. Zen Buddhism. All kind of monistic upayas or methods, Ramana Maharishi and so on. Called gyan yoga, Vedanta, gyan yoga. gyan yoga. I mean, New York city is absolutely crawling with opportunities. You know there are weird little places and a lot of them are not pure, enough. And it’s up to you to be in it and see what you can get from it and be with it and be open to it and if you don’t feel the vibes are good, be compassionate. You don’t have to sit and evaluate, you just hear what you can hear. You’ll get the message what you can get the message from. I mean I can go to the Baptist or Methodist church up in New Hampshire and I can get a great message although they don’t even know they’re sending it. Any more.



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Transcription by Sue Friston