Mindrolling – Raghu Markus – Ep. 309 – THIS with Michael Gungor

Michael Gungor

Musician and author Michael Gungor drops by Mindrolling to talk about navigating the spiritual path and letting go of the stories we tell ourselves.

Michael Gungor is a Grammy nominated musician and composer who lives in Los Angeles, California. He leads the musical collective Gungor with his wife, Lisa Gungor, and is a co-founder of The Liturgists Podcast. Michael’s latest book, THIS: Becoming Free, is available now. You can learn more about him at michaelgungor.com

Links from this episode: Becoming Nobody | Madhava Prabhu
Sub Ek

Raghu welcomes Michael and asks about his journey from fundamentalist Christian into a non-dualist. They discuss Neem Karoli Baba’s perspective on Jesus Christ and the idea of Sub Ek, that we are all one. 

“Non-duality has room for duality. It has room for the gooey and the prickly and the stoic, all of it. It’s all just the one still.” – Michael Gungor

Krishna Das explores more about Sub Ek on Pilgrim Heart Ep. 45
THIS and That (22:20)

Raghu reads from Michael’s latest book, THIS: Becoming Free. Michael talks about his time on retreat with Ram Dass, and how Ram Dass gave him a new name. They explore the distinction between pain and suffering, and how mindfulness offers a prescription to the clinging we all do.

“Pain is going to happen. Pain is part of a body living in an environment… But do you have to suffer?” – Michael Gungor

The Stories We Cling To (40:56)

The subject of clinging continues with a discussion of how painful it is to hold on to the stories we tell ourselves. It’s much harder to get caught in these stories when we practice staying in the present. Raghu and Michael end the show with an exploration of unconditional love.

“The real truth is in the spaciousness we can have around belief in our thoughts, belief in our projections, belief in our attachments, beliefs in our desires, preferences, all of it.” – Raghu Markus

Michael Gungor

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We carry our stories inside of us. Some are easier to tell than others. There are tales we polish into well-formed, amusing anecdotes. Others we bury deep until they rise up and take us by surprise.  Some we don’t even know we carry – these stories are born from secrets we’ve kept or the secrets we uncover.
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Images via Gospel Herald and Gungor Music